View source for Hindes, Kay 2009-11-08

Kay Hindes discusses the lost site of the Mission


==General Interview Information==

'''Interviewee Name:''' Kay Hindes

'''Additional Parties Recorded:'''

'''Date:''' November 08, 2009

'''Location:''' San Antonio, Texas

'''Interviewer:''' Andy Wilkinson

'''Length:''' 01:01:33


==Abstract==

Background, John Warren Hunter, Newspaper editor who lived in Menard, Knew the location of the Mission, How was the site of the mission lost if it was found so many years before and artifacts were obtained, No one believed the site existed, Hunter wrote a pamphlet that many believed to be folklore, Hunter was not a professional, Did not site his sources, Summerland, From Charlotte, From 4th grade she loved history, Loved archaeology, Loved paleontology, Married very young, Non traditional student, Started school at age 27, Studied under Tom Hester at UTSA, Anne Fox, Wayne Cox, Worked on projects, Great training, Worked with archaeologists on the River Center Mall, Worked the apple white reservation project, Did pamphlets and course papers for Tom, which is how she got hired, Worked under Wayne, Field Work, Independent study, John Leal, Had a friend with property out on the Medina, The land was in the survey area, Introduced Hindes to Adolf Herrera, descendent of Jose Francisco Ruiz and Blas Herrera who was a messenger at the Alamo, Went to Adolf’s place on the Medina, Two Hacall structures, Magnificent gates, 8ft x9ft, Came from one of the missions, 1984, Adolf, Knew a lot of oral histories, Passed down through his family, Stories from the 1700’s, Hindes would check out his stories in the archives and they would be true, Kind man, Hindes liked to listen to his oral histories, Institute Texas Cultures, The gates were secured and taken to the institute, Had a big exhibit, Never could 100% tie the gates to the Alamo because of lack of proof, Did a report on the gates and made multiple research efforts, Ruiz family owned part of that property, Came from one of the missions for sure, The gates were from the times that they possibly would have been removed, Hindes kept working on other projects, 1984-1985, In 1989 they started the Apple White Reservation project back up, Grant was the P.I for the project, Hired as the third project manager, Worked on the project until 1991, By this time, Hides had graduated and was doing independent consulting, Never taught classes, Drove back and forth 65 miles, Would go to Austin on projects, New Projects, John Leal introduced Hindes to Mark Wolf who was doing research on his family genealogy, Great Historian, Documented the Hernandez Cemetery, Apple White project was located on the lower Medina River in Southern Bear County, Large surface water reservoir that would supply water to San Antonio, Wolf and Hindes visited the site of the cemetery together, The Hernandez family, One of the original settlers of San Antonio in the 1700’s, Mark was also working with Glory Quedena, Mark wanted to see the site where Juan Leal had been but no one knew where the site was, A lot of people had looked for the site but no one had been successful in finding it, Mark looked at the project from an architectural point of view, Searching for the mission site, Cathleen Gilmore, Published a report in the 60’s, Sean Carlson from Texas A&M in 1990, Both reports were taken and looked over, Looked for key pieces of the puzzle, Cathleen recommended infra red photography 1650, Sites in the Valley, Determined high importance area where the sites could be located, Like abandoned river channels, Used infra red and black and white color out of an airplane in April of 1993, Fixed winged plane bothered Hindes, she preferred helicopter, Thought they seen anomalies in a hay field, They barely missed the site, They were on the wrong side of the river, The anomalies were east of the site, Did a lot of research, June 2, 1993, Pulled a bunch of documents, Pulled the pamphlet by John Warren Hunter, DRT library, Little foot note that said the mission was located on the Old Hawkins Smith Property about 3 miles below the town, It said fragments of pottery are still found there, Hawkins Smith sounded familiar, Martha Freeman, Historian, Had done great research on the pamphlet, Had traced down the ownership, Had tracked down three, Dee Littman, Hindes would build upon work done by others, The people who came before laid the groundwork, 3 sites were recorded close together, In June Sean brought some of her students as did Grant, Went in to test the sites, Hindes said if they didn’t find the site there that she had a good idea where it might be, When they didn’t find it Hindes concentrated on the other side, Pulled out tons of maps and visited people, Went to the Presidio, Shot video and photographs of the hay fields, White truck drove up, Carry Rambo, Talked about alfalfa, Said they needed to talk to his dad Jerry, Jerry was a real key piece to finding the mission, Pointed out the dry spring to Hindes and the group, Kissing spring, Harris Hollow, The old gourd, Jerry was excited for the site to be on his property, Everyone had connections that helped find the mission, Called Amy and said she wanted to look at the Littman property and the Ledbetter property, May 29, 1993, Went to the Ledbetter property first and didn’t find anything, They broke for lunch then went to the Littman’s, Observations, Listening to the locals was key to finding the mission, Great experience, Once in a lifetime chance, Current projects, Has another mission she wants to find, Mission Espirito Santo de Zuniga, Started looking for it in 1995, Found on the Garcintas Creek in 1721, Presidio was formed on St Louis, After they found the mission in Menard they started looking for that one, Have searched extensively for it, Still have not found it, Finding the site, Went over to the Littman’s, Monty and his wife lived where the site was found, Started at the alfalfa field, Luckily it was plowed and it had rained a little bit, Walking east, Saw clods of mud, Picked it up and it looked like burnt clay, That was the first thing they found, Found an Olive Jar, Credits Mark for her involvement, Mark really wanted to find the mission because of his ancestors, Being at the site, Incredible feeling, Would go out really early in the morning and just sat, People who Andy should talk to, The Littman’s, Jerry Rambo, Carry Rambo, Dewey Rambo, Monte, Current Job, Surveyors, Developers, Not worried about losing the site in Menard, Ghost stories, Sites being haunted, Bowie’s lost mine, Letter written by Hawkins Smith, When they were plowing they found human bone, Found a skull, In the archives, Found a copper kettle, Chalice in Burnett, Artifacts that people say came from the missing sites, Hard to separate the Presidio from the mission, Reconstructed in 1930s, Reports of farmers that when they were plowing were hitting burnt stumps, Burned remnants of the stockade wall from the mission, Don’t have the south or the north wall of the mission, Only found one burial, Would love to survey on the south side of the road, Evidence of an out building, Wants to do work further to the east, Can’t get permission to access the south side of the site, 92 artifacts that came from the site, 3 meters, Jenny’s role with the architect site, John Arn, Widening road, Surveyed 5 mile strip, Did a lot of work on Sean Carlson’s sites, Worked on the 97 excavations, Being paid to do something you love is great, Learned to swim in the spring, Southwest Texas undergraduate, Belize, Ecuador and Peru, Masters at Texas Tech, Excavated at the mission



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